A Little Better, JD, but Still a Ways to Go

The Playground Rules

JD Wrote:

Ok, points taken. But here’s my point and it is merely my point of view. There are plenty of sites out there for those who just want to have sex, i.e. shagaholic, localslags, benaughty, erovie, C-date, Adult Friend Finder. Why not expend your energy into telling those who posted that it’s ok to lie on POF to get sex and to treat all women like sluts, to go onto these sites where men and women know exactly what they’re getting into rather than them muddying the waters on POF or other sites where there are decent people who are simply looking for an honest relationship . I understand from friends who are on POF that even they have a separate part for people just wanting a sexual encounter.

But that is the whole point.  Plenty-of-Fish has been muddied largely by women.  These fall in the categories of (and combinations can apply):

  1. Mirror, mirror on the Wall: Looking for men far hotter than she could possibly attract in the real world.
  2. The Black Hole of Attention:  Collects messages to boost ego.
  3. Not as Advertised (Your results may vary):  So creative a description and photo trickery that P.T. Barnum would bow in awe.
  4. Pay my Bills: Welfare mother.
  5. The Cat Fish:  Fake, Period. (OK, sometimes not even a woman)

You might think that women you personally know are not any of the above.  They don’t start out that way, but in reality, the experience nurtures this kind of errant behaviour so even well intentioned individuals soon exhibit those traits.

Consider the how the typical female experiences online dating.  In the real world, she might perceive some attention here and there, but usually it’s as if no one notices her at all.  If there are more attractive women around, all she sees is that they get all the male interest.

She goes online, and suddenly she is getting dozens of messages from men.  Some are duds, but some are acceptably attractive, and some are better that she expected.  That doesn’t mean other more attractive women aren’t getting even more, but that isn’t immediately apparent (or even easily ascertained).  “She” is now the star!  Everyday, more messages come in.  It’s time to pick and choose (just like how she has seen the hot women do in real life).  Don’t settle!  Wait.  Maybe a 10 will come along.

That’s how the “princess” syndrome happens.

What’s more is that Plenty-of-Fish actively allows (and even promotes) bad attitudes from women.  In the hunt for female membership, they are far more lax on the rules for women.

As I have mentioned in the past, the choice of description for women are purposely nebulous and subject to personal opinion (like “average” or “a few extra pounds” for weight).  Men?  They have to quote their height to the inch.  Furthermore, it is one of the first attributes listed on the profile.  This exaggerates the importance of height to the point that many women will not even answer solicitations from men who are an inch or less below average height!

You would think that men could voice their issues with that, but that wouldn’t be the case.

The forums are about as biased as it can possibly get.  Women are allowed all sorts of latitude in bashing men while any rebuttal, regardless of how civilized is actively removed.  The slightest complaint earns anywhere from a 3-day to a permanent ban from posting.  Certain topics are taboo (as you can guess, it will be any topic that women do not want to hear about).

Hence the “sea” is friendly to the women behaving as bullet-pointed above, while harsh and unforgiving to the earnest man.

If we want to purify the waters of Plenty-of-Fish, a large part of the process needs to be addressing the trap of the “Princess Syndrome”.  That may not be an easy task in that it is hard enough to attract available women to the site as it is.  There are a lot more “decent” guys that get frustrated by the attitudes of women on POF than the other way around.  Remember, the typical guy gets about 2 to 3 responses for every 100 messages he sends out.  The typical woman gets to choose a couple of candidates a day.

If a guy wants to actually get some success on POF, he has to apply the Frost concepts to some degree.  It’s the nature of the game.  Realistically, men will stop the creative advertising when it doesn’t become necessary.  Remember casual encounters happen when both parties want that.  Players are rarely going to wait 3-5 dates for intimacy.  This is why the fervour over “getting played” is somewhat overplayed (hmm… I’m using the word “play” too much).

Life in the Fast Laid

JD Wrote:

Not every woman is a princess, likewise not every man is just after sex. But surely it would be better to tell the princes and princesses to go on the above sites?

Firstly, one is surreptitiously ignoring the large difference between the relative proportion of princesses versus non-princesses in comparison to “just after sex” types among men.  That’s like saying “hey, everybody jaywalks” to dismiss the far more errant behaviour of robbing a bank.

Even if this was not the case, the venues you mention suffer from the same degradation that POF has experienced (although, POF is “special” in that they play a much greater role in making it worse that it has to be).

The men?  Sites like those you mention are rarely anything more than cheaper advertising for the sex trade.  If men were interested in that, they would just go the locales that are specifically set-up for that purpose.  To that end it’s much easier (and cost effective) for men to just visit the usual venues in the real world.

The Princesses?  Well, the experience does show that the attraction of stroking one’s ego tends to work against efforts in achieving longer-term goals. Online it’s easy to slip into Princess behaviour. It is very much like being on a strict diet.  The attraction of bad food choices is very powerful.  It’s hard enough to tell people not to give into such obvious things.  How easy would it be to stop women from becoming too full of themselves in online dating sites?

To Bed or Not to Bed

JD Wrote:

These men call women names when they value themselves and don’t jump into bed with them and then call them sluts when they behave the way these guys want them to.

Whether one agrees to physical intimacy is dependent on their perception of the other party (or parties).  The decision is a case-by-case one.  We shouldn’t misrepresent the irritation from being withheld from sexual relations in lieu of reasonable likelihood with that of pure expectation.  Any person would be upset with being excluded if they perceive that they shouldn’t be.

While there are those who are quite hedonistic, the very same woman who was called prudish isn’t called a “slut” for merely expressing sexual desire.  More than likely she is verbal assaulted for excluding individuals while including others for reasons like having a prejudice or an over-inflated sense of self-worth.  That shouldn’t be so difficult to observe or understand.  Trying to bury that by saying the observer is biased and therefore no action on the part of the woman can alter perception is ignoring the obvious.

…That is the Intention.

JD Wrote:

Is it any wonder women get frustrated? Because they’re damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

Actually, the “frustation” you speak of is not from any dilemma of the sort.  It is really from being reminded that they are not of the level they delude themselves to be.  It is akin to believing that one is royalty and then feeling slighted that doors just don’t open themselves (which really explains the epithet of “princess”).

Men (well, people in general) don’t like snobbish attitudes.  Seriously, when has a snobbish attitude gained anything but disrespect?

The Commerce of Companionship

JD Wrote:

So the result is that they decide to take, take whatever they can from men. They’ve learned from the likes of Jordan that you can find guys to buy you everything if you use your body, looks etc. and put it about, hell you can even become famous.

No.  That is just an attempt to rationalize this type of manipulation as a learned behaviour to defend against alleged disrespect from men.

Any good relationship involves both parties making the effort to bring the best they can bring into the union.  Some women take advantage of this.

The Name Game

JD Wrote:

Surely though rather than keep on arguing about context it would be better to argue that what goes around comes around, you get what you deserve. If you put out the sort of attitude that men are for being used and that sleeping around is good, well then you’ll get called a slag or slut, but don’t complain.

First off, let’s not attempt to dismiss the attention to “context”.  It isn’t there just for the sake of the word.  It is mentioned when people slyly ignore it to promote falsehood.

What goes around doesn’t always come around.  That is rationalization as a way to resolve denial.  As far as women who “sleep around”, they probably don’t care whether you or I call them a slut or a saint.  They do it because they can.

Will it “catch up with them”?  I suppose if they wake up and find them 35 and alone and low on real prospects, maybe, but judging from the multitudes of available men on sites like POF, it isn’t likely.

The Good Intentioned, the Badly Treated, and the Banshee

JD Wrote:

Guys who merely want sex and nothing else and treat women badly, will only ever find women who become screaming banshees, because the women they treat badly get so frustrated and fed up, or they’ll find those who treat them badly, but don’t complain.

Notice how you have to qualify “guys who merely want sex” with the additional condition of “treat women badly”.  In effect, that is homage to the case that men can want only sex (although they usually want more and this will be covered in a moment) but need not treat women badly in order to get it.

Within all of the complaints of men allegedly treating women badly is the crux of the matter.

Modern western society has created a sense of ENTITLEMENT among women to the point that literally anything shy of royal treatment is tantamount to being “treated badly”.  This is not an exaggeration.  Look at how women behave on Frost’s thread.  See how practically all of them think it is completely valid to suggest things like having Frost to be repeated kicked in the groin, while waging a protracted campaign against a person responding to some hostility with a four-letter word.

This snooty attitude extends into the online dating world.  They have this prevalent sense of entitlement in (but not exclusive to):

  • Being vague about their body shape but expecting absolute precision in a man’s height
  • Speaking of height: that any man under x inches beneath average height is not to even waste HER time having to delete his message.
  • Having a huge list of “must haves” in order for her to even look at a message.
  • Never being wrong (she only “changes her mind”).
  • A man must shut up and put up with her roller coaster called “emotions”.
  • Holding sex for ransom.
  • Basically, acting like 13-year-old schoolgirls.

Think of it this way:  If you behaved like this while looking for a job, or in your current job, just how long do you think your employment would last?  Do you think it was your employer treating you badly?  Please.

In general, no, it is hardly men who treat women badly.  It is wholly the other way around.

Men who only want sex…

Even as a case-by-case decision, men generally want far more of a relationship than simply some physical sex.  If that were the case, there are far easier and accessible options to satiate such desires.

If a man is asking you out, it is because he is interested in YOU.  Applying “game” is just to get to the critical first meeting.  The man is still interested in you.

The Rules of Enragement

JD Wrote:

Male or female, if you have a bad attitude towards others, you’ll get bad attitude back.
Surely it’s much better to respect and treat people right in the first place.
But it’s entirely up to you, it’s your time and your energy.

With the way online dating sites like POF provides little incentive for women to behave with any respect or without delusion of their own self-worth, some attention to guarding oneself is prudent.

Applying “game” doesn’t mean one has a “bad attitude” towards women in general, or even specifically women online.  It is just about how to deal with inflated egos and the nature of how being segregated makes them forget that there is competition.  These are some of things that exist in real life that help things happen.

Women?  Most don’t even realize that they have been “infected” with the Princess Syndrome.

Certainly, we should all treat people with respect and civility.  But remember to check out how some chose to react to posts from myself, yet expected this reverence and amicability they clearly did not offer in return.  Without the perception of immediate and negative consequences, many resort to bullying tactics.  The prevalence of who applied those tactics should give some credence to why being optimistic yet cautious is a good approach.

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2 Comments Add yours

  1. lin says:

    What I hate about Plenty of Fish
    I am writing this in the hopes of shedding some light on the way many of us guys think. Sacrifice it to say in this world of politically correct language the truth is often obscured by a language designed to blur thought into black and white compliance. I felt it my duty as to inject some truth into the online pursuit of that someone “Special”.

    1. Ladies over 55 who strike frisky posses trying to accentuate the sexuality they had three decades ago. They do not seem to understand that bus left years ago. Admit it ladies, at that age those sexy alluring poses just don’t rock worlds anymore. The ravages of time deflect any hint of sensuality that you once had. Come to terms with it, it’s over, you had your day in the sun now graciously let it go. You have some great assets but your face skin is no longer part of them. Stop pretending. You have had 50 some years to accumulate other assets. Use those as the allure, they are stronger than you think and those are the things that give you age-less beauty. That’s what’s sexy.

    2. Another issue I find disturbing and a complete waste of everybody’s time are ladies that photograph themselves in esoteric clandestine poses so people cannot tell what the hell you look like. You know the ones; blurred, hats tilted jauntily in front of your face. Your head turned sideways or other contorted angle. Hair hanging in front of your face, pictures shot in the dark of night with cheap digital cameras. You’re not a bat so stop slinking off into the shadows in an attempt to hide yourself. Photos that show you as a black, or blurry thing in the frame. Also, if you have a cell phone sporting a 3 megapixel camera chuck the dam thing away and get with the program. If you cannot afford one, know this: at any one moment any five out of five people standing beside you are carrying a camera that was not chiseled out of piece of granite. Ask one of them to take a couple of photos of you. In broad daylight. Yes, you heard me, seek out sunlight or bright lights, place your face into the camera somewhere short of arms length and take the dam photo. Then…NO, don’t look at it, march straight over and upload it to your POF profile. Don’t even think about clicking the photo deception icon. That’s honesty, feels good doesn’t it? To be real honest ladies, guys could give a rats ass that you’re hanging off a cliff, scuba diving in Can Coon or standing in front of the Sphinx, all they they want to see is what you look like. We don’t like surprises because if you show up looking 10-15 years older than your photo and we have to buy you dinner, were pissed.

    I know enough about Photoshop to make anyone look like a super model, so as soon as I see you in person I am going to know you’re a dam lier. Now just stop and think for a moment, why would I want to get to know someone that starts out manipulating facts in an attempt to deceive me? First off, I am not a fool, and really, what is it that makes you think a relationship based on a lie is a good foundation? If you cannot see that you need to go do some journaling.

    3. If you’re over weight be proud of it. Wear it with gusto, flaunt it, show it off, zoom in on it. Lots of guys love the extra surface area and those that don’t still appreciate the fact you are proud of who you are. And we all appreciate cleavage. Do not for heaven sake try to hide it by only posting head shots or some odd angle you think makes you look thin. All that does is show the contempt you have for your own body. If you don’t like yourself then really, why should anyone else like you? You might as well just be yelling “I am hideous and unworthy of attracting anyone”. “I hate what I have allowed myself to become but maybe, just maybe if I hide the layers of self-protection that I have loaded over my vulnerabilities for the last 15 years with trick photography I can manipulate someone into talking to me just long enough to discover the real me. Good grief. Please, who do you think your kidding? This may come as a surprise but: The outside of yourself IS the real you because of the emotional script you’ve been running since you slid your first pan of carbs out of your Easy Bake Oven.

    4. Average Body Type. PLEEEEEEEEEEAS
    That used to mean fit, not fat. Now it’s become soft-speak for: “I am a bit fat but no fatter than all the other fat people”.

    Learn this:
    You are either Thin, Athletic, Plump or Fat. That is pretty much it. On rare occasions if Richard Simmons has called you his special friend you can also use the term Grossly Obese. That’s it. Stick with these simple words and you will avoid disappointment by linguistically twisting reality. While we’re on the subject of weight, can someone tell me why is it the larger a woman is the more love they have to give? Perhaps it’s has something to do with the age old mystery of why most dietitians are fat.

    5. Your Dog
    Please remove the dog from your face area. Women with photos of dog wrapped up beside them need to understand something very important.
    I know you love your dog, he is best, always there for you, the unconditional love, the always happy to see you thing. You can come home feeling like a complete bitch and the next moment he will be snuggling up to you as if you are the best thing since canned cat food. They are a living example that yes, you can indeed buy love. And yes, as soon as we stopped using them to hunt they became woman’s best friend too, I get it. Here is the problem. For anyone with a shred of personal hygiene it is clearly understood there is a direct physical relationship not only between the dogs face and his ass button but every other gross piece of crap found on the ground. I am not going to go into details here, but were talking some pretty foul stuff. I just need to know something. Is it that you simply block this fact out of your mind? Do you not care? Do you really believe just because Muffy spends most of his time indoors and you are with him on walks he does not use his nose and mouth in exploration of such things? Maybe I am missing something. Is their an invisible piece of Star Trek technology that purges all molecular contaminants as his head withdraws from his ass region? If there is, that’s good, in fact that’s great, problem solved. I am no Martha Stewart here but I need to know that by the time your dogs face arrives next to yours it has undergone a complete cellular decontamination. On the other hand, if this piece of technology does not exist, something drastic needs to shift, for that to take place you need to become aware of what’s going on beyond the visual range. The dog knows, he can taste and smell what he is doing, but he doesn’t care, he has no reason to care. But you, you are not a dog and did you forget you’re trying to attract a man. Men like clean women, women that smell nice, women who understand hygiene. This needs to concern you.

    6a. This may not seem like much but trust me it is.
    Under NO circumstances take a photo with your 21 year old daughter or younger sister, that’s just opening up a whole mess of trouble. You could be having an awesome time with your new guy, but trust me in the back of his mind he will be wanting to meet your sister and he WILL be checking out your daughter when it comes time to meet the family. I don’t know how many times I have wanted to respond to an ad just to ask, who is that person beside you.
    6b. Do not crop out your ex if you do it is painfully obvious you’re on the rebound. Go to a mirror and look yourself in the eyes and ask yourself. Be honest now. Is it healthy for me to be looking for a man at this point in my life? Take a break girl, it screams clingy. That goes for you separated ladies as well. No nice guy wants to jump into that hornets nest.

    I hope this sheds some light on a few things. Yes, I know a list could be written about us guys as well. Don’t get me wrong here, I love women, I honor women of all ages, without them we would have chopped that dam apple tree down to get at all the apples and fucked ourselves right out of the gate.
    Cheers

    1. gaul7000 says:

      Absolutely right on, my friend.

      POF creates an environment that promotes this type of behaviour from women. If anything, it shows the amount of denial that the passed-over harbour. As well, it shows how immature some women can become when they perceive that they can act with utter disregard for others.

      Thanks for posting!

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